Curse

master chief matt · May 10, 2006, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macktar Wang

Can't say I agree with this first part. You want to tie access to elite PvE missions to your PvP abilities? Isn't that the major complaint of the favor system? I'm willing to bet that most of the people wanting to enter these missions have nothing to do with a top 5 GvG guild.
I do like your last idea. Provide a challenging unlock mission, or something along those lines. Set it up like a FoW area that has to be cleared in order to access the elite missions, but still allow holding alliances to enter without taking the "entry test." That way there is still a significant advantage to holding the city, but the self-proclaimed elite PvE players will have a chance to get in.

i just wanted to include the pvp guys in that because they count too, i know there are some that wont do anything but pvp, so why should they be excluded from the elite maps. and i honestly believe that the most elite people are those that can clear hoh and win favor. and gvg elites desert entrance to the most elite maps because the earned it by proving they are teh best guilds in the game. like i said, i think the elite maps should be open to everyone, pve and pvp players, but make it so that the truly elite people are the only ones that will be able to unlock them

Senator Tom · May 10, 2006, 02:22 PM // 14:22

im in the alliance that owns cavalon, and i can get 10k faction a day easily. the elite mission from cavalon (the deep) is tough. 12 person party and you need good teamwork to do it. but what i will say is that its nothing spectacular. personally i like FoW better. the deep is fun but prophecies fow/uw are the same kind of challenge. the only thing you are missing out on are the new enemies and new areas. if you all want it that bad, make a guild, an alliance. everyone that posted here that wants access to elite missions without being in the guild that owns the town, all of you make an alliance and buy one. what i hate about most of you is that you will whine and complain, but not try to do anything about it.

Hella Good · May 10, 2006, 02:35 PM // 14:35

^^^
Whine has nothing to do with it, no need to be arrogant when posting about something that is of concern to the community. The lack of respect to the community from alliances such as yours is the main reason for the discussion here. There question is how the faction is obtained and how much of skill is really involved. The focus is the fact the system is crippled. It's easy to brag about people simply "whining" when you don't understand these basic concepts.

The really sad thing is that ANet messed everything up real good AGAIN. Like you would think they learn from their mistakes. Elite missions were supposedly a reward for people who have skills, but instead it turned into a reward for people who farm faction galore. And then you hear ANet saying "Oh, we are against farming" and it just makes you respond with a "Yea, right." I wish that for once they would come up with a system that is actually working and does not involve extensive farming.

If you want to reward people for skill then base access on expert mission completion for PvE, or a similar title for PvP (not rank please, rank is utterly meaningless ever since the IWAY farms came to be). Create a measure for skill in both game formats and base access on it. This will mean quality groups, fair chance for access, etc. You can still keep the alliance-with-most-faction-gets-capital thing but you just HAVE TO eliminate the redoable quests. Challenge missions and Alliance battles should be the main source of faction; not redoable quests. If leading alliances were forced to share access with people who have actually demonstrated more than just ability to generate a lot of faction, I think, it will easen up the restrictiveness of the system.

The whole "we don't want to share the spoils" thing of major alliances is ridiculous because other than showing ability to stick together and farm faction, these alliances have done nothing to deserve the spoils. And mind you, the Kurzick alliances are much much more open about it, allowing random people in and having no restrictions on item sells. Same does not go for the Luxon alliances.

GloryFox · May 10, 2006, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Again, its 800vs800,000; take your pick gaile and anet

Actually its even less than that, if you consider more like 100 people do enter those missions vs. the 800,000 that play daily. No offense Anet but I am 1337 with all my characters and no way do I have time to farm 10,000 faction for some game snob guild. TIME DOES NOT EQUAL 1337! At least FOW and UW there is a 1 in 4 chance (usually 1 in 3) that I can do UW. Now there is a 99.9999% chance that I cannot do Elite missions. On top of that nothing was wrong for 12v12 that change alone has pissed many of us off.

Macktar Wang · May 10, 2006, 02:52 PM // 14:52

I wonder how long it will take for the Bot farmers to get into this. I can see it now on Ebay:

Join the Alliance!
Our alliance is holding HZH, and you can join for only $50.00. That's right, now you too can access the Elite Missions without having to farm away at Faction. We'll do that for you! Limited space available, so act now!
$50.00 grants you 1 month access into the holding alliance.

Fossa · May 10, 2006, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by master chief matt

ehhh, i never said that. tombs/uw/fow are pve and are very dificult. anyone that can clear those places out imo is a pro and an elite

OK I misunderstood. Just don't give them any strange ideas for linking high-end PvE in Chapter 3

cherikku · May 10, 2006, 03:47 PM // 15:47

I did screen it, but why would ANET care about a matter this small. Apparently speaking to some guildies it has happened to them too. Just a heads up when at elite town ... DO NOT join a team of which the team leaderr is part of the alliance that holds the town.

Riceboi · May 10, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherikku

I did screen it, but why would ANET care about a matter this small. Apparently speaking to some guildies it has happened to them too. Just a heads up when at elite town ... DO NOT join a team of which the team leaderr is part of the alliance that holds the town.

You and your guildies should immediately report that to Anet. This abuse of power is unacceptable!

SirJackassIII · May 10, 2006, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Tom

im in the alliance that owns cavalon, and i can get 10k faction a day easily. the elite mission from cavalon (the deep) is tough. 12 person party and you need good teamwork to do it. but what i will say is that its nothing spectacular. personally i like FoW better. the deep is fun but prophecies fow/uw are the same kind of challenge. the only thing you are missing out on are the new enemies and new areas. if you all want it that bad, make a guild, an alliance. everyone that posted here that wants access to elite missions without being in the guild that owns the town, all of you make an alliance and buy one. what i hate about most of you is that you will whine and complain, but not try to do anything about it.

Hi.

I'm in a 50-man Guild, consisting of a lot of nice, friendly people I dare call friends (a few I know IRL as well). To "do something about it", I have the following choice:
- Form a huge alliance with other Guilds, whom do not like Guilds with <80 members, so that means recruiting blindly.
- Quit my Guild and join a large alliance filled with grinders who I don't know.

Or, as you said:
- all of us join int one big alliance.
Problems with your suggestion:
- Most of us are in a Guild/Alliance
- If I get it in tim, I should be nr 180. Let's do a little math.
To take over Cavalon, we need as much Faction as you. You say you farm 10k easily per day, so assuming your 800-man Alliance would be able to do the same:
800*10k = 180*x (not even taking double posts into account)
so x = 44 444.5 (rounded up)

How easy is it to farm that amount while having a job/school?

The reason we "whine" is because we couldn't do anything about it even if we wanted to. ANet's main player base consists mostly of Casual players, who do not have the time to even farm 5k per day due to their lives getting in the way. Their website and box say:

Quote:

...as skill, not hours played, decides your fate

The sentence (in different ways) can be found 3 times on the original GW box.

There is no skill whatsoever involved in grinding. There's even a way to "farm faction" by checking GW every 12 minutes (gaining ~750 Faction during that time), meaning you don't even have to be playing the game. This is again not an option for the casual player since we want to play the game to the fullest whenever we have time to play.

felinette · May 10, 2006, 04:42 PM // 16:42

A PvE reward should reward PvE-type behaviour. Elite PvE missions should be hard to reach, requiring you to zone through several areas and fight challenging opponents (not hordes of opponents--challenging opponents that you don't see elsewhere). If you and your party make it through, you get to play the elite mission. Or some other criteria--completed all storyline missions and optional quests, for example.

As far as Anet having our money so there's no point complaining, that's nuts. If we don't voice our displeasure, they'll think everyone loves the current system. And perhaps we'll save someone a few dollars because they'll decide they'd rather buy a game that doesn't require farming to access PvE content.

Sir_BlackJack · May 10, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

They are aware of it. But...

As Gaile puts it: (Not quoted) Shouldn't there be a reward for the elite players? Something 1337?

As we know this has nothing to do with being.. "elite". Time > Skill

GloryFox · May 10, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Great Point and as a casual player I do feel a bit betrayed by non accsess to areas I could beat. TIME DOES NOT EQUAL 1337 GAILE !

sdliddo · May 10, 2006, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Gah. I dunno about a lot of the whinny things I've heard of but to be brutally honest.... it really sucks true. Honest to god it sucks as hell since the one thing I try to avoid is grinding.

I farm but not much and god knows how the rest can managed to even get 250 ectos and 250 shards and all that.

But most of you seem to be forgetting the one important thing that anet is TRYING to introduce here. A Mix of PVP and PVE gaming experience or something like that.

I've tried out the missions to farm for factions and one thing i will tell you is that you need a lot of team play here. No idiot 55 monks and 2 man builds.

What you people are complaining likely is that despite the grind you will likely do in those missions to farm for factions, you wont be reciecing any RARE items farming for factions.

Just gold and factions is all.... why don't you people admit it?

You want the elite missions for the special items. You want these items to sell them to at insane prices. But you cant get at it unless you grind in a way you people obviously dont want to do.

You want it for yourself and want it sooo bad because the money you can get for these items will be astronomically insane.

Admit it peeps. That's what 90% of you want and are not telling.

the rest... they want it to simply experience it. Gah. I want it too but know the needed time and undertaking needed for it. I respect that requirement despite god knows i cant meet it.

My life is work - home - rest - play.

PVP is impossible at most since it requires wasting time i do not have a lot of. Sucks but nothing i can do. Those who can -- well great... best of luck. But for the rest of us poor shmucks.... we cant do it unless a frigging miracle happens.

In this I do so understand the pain of never being able to experience these elite missions. Wish i can wish i could but unless each and every whinner out here somehow KNOWS how to play properly with a team and not go with the noob-like speeches we all aint gonna get a taste of it.

Yep. The leavers.... the idiots... the incompetents... the big egotist aggro fools.... all these aint gonna get a taste of it!!! YES!!!! proper punishment for these kind of people.

Now.. for the poor folks like me who despite all they do cant get it due to the needed time to farm these factions... its gonna be a miracle. We who are able to mix and match with any person and make a difficult mission succeed despite being total strangers is -- imho --- the truest essence of gameplay that i thoroughly enjoy. To finish a mission with a group of strangers that you mesh with in a way that makes the team succeed in a mission is proof of how these people can adapt well to total strangers and alter their playstyle to mesh properly with the rest of the team.

These people will never be able to catch the elite missions and in this i sadly understand their disappointment. Sucks. Really.

Shifty Five Monk · May 10, 2006, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Man... If you guys want to get in so bad then make friends with one of the many people in one of the top two alliances and get in one of the 10 guilds! not that hard.

Btw Black blades beat the deep 2 days ago

felinette · May 10, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdliddo

But most of you seem to be forgetting the one important thing that anet is TRYING to introduce here. A Mix of PVP and PVE gaming experience or something like that.

We know what they're trying to do. We just don't like it, nor do we understand why they're trying to force two different camps together. If we wanted to PvP, we'd PvP.

Quote:

What you people are complaining likely is that despite the grind you will likely do in those missions to farm for factions, you wont be reciecing any RARE items farming for factions.

Nope.

Quote:

the rest... they want it to simply experience it.

Yep, that's why I want it.

I'm a PvE player who wants access to all the PvE areas. That's not an unreasonable thing to want, and I shouldn't have to farm or make nice with certain people to get it.

Theus · May 10, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shifty Five Monk

Man... If you guys want to get in so bad then make friends with one of the many people in one of the top two alliances and get in one of the 10 guilds! not that hard.

Btw Black blades beat the deep 2 days ago

So basicly..ditch our freinds for our own selfish reasons?

No thanks.

Quoted added.

Stockholm · May 10, 2006, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shifty Five Monk

Man... If you guys want to get in so bad then make friends with one of the many people in one of the top two alliances and get in one of the 10 guilds! not that hard.

It's not a question about getting in that bad as not having the choise, without grinding for factions, this is ENTERTAINMENT not work. I have paid for a GAME not for a second JOB. Enjoy it as long as you can. " THE BOT'S ARE COMING SOON" 500.000 Chines Bot's farming factions, then we will see who whines. lol

SirJackassIII · May 10, 2006, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shifty Five Monk

Man... If you guys want to get in so bad then make friends with one of the many people in one of the top two alliances and get in one of the 10 guilds! not that hard.

Btw Black blades beat the deep 2 days ago

So you've managed to miss all the posts of people saying they'd rather stick with their own small Guild/Alliance and they do not want to be forced to leave them to enjoy all content...ALL those posts...

Fascinating...

Divinus Stella · May 10, 2006, 06:18 PM // 18:18

It wont be long til the 12v12 missions are full with bots afking in them and sapping the faction, or guilds using macros to farm the faction from certain quests.
Then you wont feel so good after you just spent you summer grinding 5 million faction and have nothing to show for it.

master chief matt · May 10, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shifty Five Monk

Man... If you guys want to get in so bad then make friends with one of the many people in one of the top two alliances and get in one of the 10 guilds! not that hard.

Btw Black blades beat the deep 2 days ago

hey,maybe if you guys didnt have rediculous requirements, 10k faction a day, then maybe those of us that work, go to school, have families and other, more pressing matters that we must attend to on a daily basis, would be able to play.

and good for you guys for beating the deep, now you can boast how you are the only ones to beat it......oh, thats right, you will be the only ones along with your alliance to beat it because you dont guest anyone anymore, and normal games who could probably kick your ass in a gvg will never be able to try the elite maps because we do not have the time to form a massive guild, then get 10 of us to alliance together, then all spend all our gaming time farming for faction.